avoiding a motor

Welcome to PocketShip.net! This bulletin board is for builders of the Chesapeake Light Craft-John C. Harris "PocketShip" design, a 15-foot micro cruiser sailboat built from a kit or plans.

For more information on PocketShip, click here: http://www.clcboats.com/pocketship

This site gathers PocketShip builders in one place. Here you can share photos, tips, questions, and---eventually---your sailing adventures in PocketShip! CLC will also post design updates and tips here as they come up.

We'll try to knock down spam as quickly as possible.

Moderator: John C. Harris

Forum rules
Spam or commercial posts will be deleted.
This is a civil forum: no flames or drunken tirades.
Please stay on-topic.
PocketShip's Web Page: http://www.clcboats.com/pocketship
If you need CLC customer service: http://www.clcboats.com/forms/contact_us.html
We'll try to delete spam as soon as it appears.

avoiding a motor

Postby DanaDCole on Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:00 am

I don't know if I can accomplish it, but I'm going to try as hard as I can to avoid hanging a motor on the back of my boat (if I ever finish it :) ). Lots of reasons, but at the top of the list are avoiding fossil-fuel use and the expense. (If I do have to buy a motor I'm definitely going with the Lehr propane-powered model--thanks to "Captain Charlie" for showing me that.) Here are a couple ideas I've been bouncing around and I'd like some feedback from more experienced boaters:

1. Sculling oar. I have very little experience with sculling, but from what little I have it doesn't seem to me that I could generate enough power with it to maneuver around a crowded dock on a windy day. It can get pretty windy out here in Oklahoma, and I just don't see how I could make any headway sculling against say, a 15 knot wind--and what if the wind increased while I was out sailing? A side wind of that magnitude or higher could make it a lot more dangerous around a dock or some other hazard. I have read about a tilting sculling oar mount that, if it works as advertised, reduces the learning curve by quite a bit. Has anyone used one of these? (I wish I could remember where I saw it--might have been on Duckworks.)

2. One-side paddling. Here's something I thought of while discussing this with my wife this morning. I got the idea from Venetian gondolas, which are slightly curved so the gondolier only has to row on one side. Using a tiller clutch I could set the tiller to make the boat want to turn slightly to starboard. Then I could paddle on one side only. With a good paddle I'm pretty sure I could generate enough thrust, and I think I could get more control than by sculling. If I need to turn to port, paddle harder. If I need to turn to starboard, ease up. (I decided on paddling on the starboard side since I am right-handed, but it would be easy enough to move the tiller and paddle on the port side when necessary.)

Please let me know your thoughts about these ideas, or maybe there is a better way I haven't thought of. Thanks!
Last edited by DanaDCole on Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
DanaDCole
 
Posts: 497
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 2:06 pm
Location: Stillwater, Oklahoma

Re: avoiding a motor

Postby Shudoman on Mon Mar 10, 2014 10:20 am

I've gone the route of a Torqueedo electric outboard. Used one on a Potter 19 that I used to have. I could get about a 5mi range at about 3kts and the Potter was a much larger/heavier boat than the PocketShip. Sold the Potter but kept the Torqueedo. I was able to get a nifty removable engine mount that has three small brackets that are attached to the transom and the bracket just slides into those.

Image

My needs are just for maneuvering in harbor and docking. I also have a kit where I can press my 85Ah house battery into service for some extra Torqueedo runtime. The Torqueedo tiller has an integrated GPS and energy management system. It can tell you how fast you're going and how far you can go at that speed. Pretty sweet little package. Only thing is price (Doh!).

Regards,

Bill
Shudoman
 
Posts: 144
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2009 10:31 pm

Re: avoiding a motor

Postby Diving Duck on Mon Mar 10, 2014 10:35 am

Thanks Bill. I have seen that mount and wondered how it would handle the vibration of an internal combustion engine vs. electric. I've also looked long and hard at the Torqueedo, but the price is just too rich for my blood. It's definitely a good way to go, if you can afford it.

As I said, I've also been interested in the small motor mount you show--a lot less obtrusive than the others that are available. Do you know of anyone who uses it with a small combustion engine? I would definitely want to back up those little mounting brackets with some pretty hefty wood, inside and out--maybe some rubber under there too.
Diving Duck
 
Posts: 43
Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2012 11:38 am

Re: avoiding a motor

Postby DanaDCole on Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:00 am

Well I just checked at West Marine and it's not as bad as I thought. The Torqueedo Travel 1003 with long shaft is $2,000 and they claim it is 3HP equivalent. More than enough. The Lehr 2.5HP is $1,049 for the short shaft model--I can't find a long shaft model, but I thought they made one. If they don't, that could be a deal-breaker because I think long-shaft works best on the PocketShip. Do I have this backwards?

Anyway, I think I can manage the extra $1000 for an electric--more eco-friendly and little or no vibration. I'm planning to install a solar panel on the PS, so will definitely opt for the boat-battery connection (have to think about the wiring though). Anyway, once that is all set up I will be taking no power from the "grid." And as an added bonus, I will have little or no worry about running out of "juice" while out on the water.

The model I'm looking at costs about half what the one I think you are talking about costs. It does not have the GPS but does have a speed over water indicator and gives the range estimate. And on a lake, speed over water pretty much equals speed over ground.
DanaDCole
 
Posts: 497
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 2:06 pm
Location: Stillwater, Oklahoma

Re: avoiding a motor

Postby craig on Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:18 am

I'm on a very strict weight and cost budget, so attaching a motor is a guaranteed "no" for me. John Harris posted somewhere that he envisioned a yuloh being used when in the harbor/dock, but I've not seen any reference to one being used so far. If anybody made or used one, I'd be very curious how fast you could go and if navigation around the dock is OK.

Here is a nice guide on Duckworks for making a yuloh; I was going to follow it with some modifications since Pocketship is lighter/shorter than their boat: http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/11/how ... /index.htm

And if you're curious, Davide Beade made one too: http://www.simplicityboats.com/yulohpage2.html
Titania, launched January 2015
craig
 
Posts: 284
Joined: Fri Feb 21, 2014 1:04 pm
Location: Chapel Hill, NC

Re: avoiding a motor

Postby DanaDCole on Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:51 am

Thanks for that link--I dimly remember reading it sometime in the past. According to what they say, the yuloh (sculling oar) definitely provides enough thrust. If you have the skill to operate it, that is, and that's the rub. Still, I'm willing to learn if I can find anybody around here who knows how (doubtful). The yulohs all look pretty long--makes me wonder how long one has to be for the P.S., where do you stand?, where do you store it?
DanaDCole
 
Posts: 497
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 2:06 pm
Location: Stillwater, Oklahoma

Re: avoiding a motor

Postby Shudoman on Mon Mar 10, 2014 12:41 pm

That's a good price for a Torqueedo. They do make a long shaft version which is what I have. Using the mount located like in picture above the center of prop rotation falls even with the bottom of the keel (for long shaft). Short shaft may work, but I'd get the long shaft if I had a choice.

Bill
Shudoman
 
Posts: 144
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2009 10:31 pm

Re: avoiding a motor

Postby Diving Duck on Mon Mar 10, 2014 3:20 pm

You read my post just a little too fast, or more likely I wrote it too fast :) . Anyway, the price I quoted was for the Torqueedo with the long shaft. The only Lehr I could find on West Marine's site was for the short shaft version, but I'm pretty sure they make a long shaft version.
Diving Duck
 
Posts: 43
Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2012 11:38 am

Re: avoiding a motor

Postby Shudoman on Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:48 pm

Ahh. You were right. I read it too fast.
Shudoman
 
Posts: 144
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2009 10:31 pm

Re: avoiding a motor

Postby John C. Harris on Tue Mar 11, 2014 11:33 am

I really like that stainless bracket, Bill. That's very well done.

You can build your own outboard bracket. Here's the drawing:

PocketShip Outboard Mount - Thumb.jpg
PocketShip Outboard Mount - Thumb.jpg (85.38 KiB) Viewed 12851 times


Step-by-step instructions are here: http://www.clcboats.com/various/20090824.html

The combination of PocketShip's excellent light air ability and the Chesapeake's lack of big tidal currents meant that for the first years of the boat's life I never felt the need for auxiliary propulsion. I could always ghost into port and never missed an appointment. I keep a canoe paddle on board for quick maneuvers near the dock. You only have to paddle on one side, as the keel provides good tracking.

I have always meant to build a folding yuloh or sculling oar based on Phil Bolger's published design, but never got around to it. With the long keel and wide transom, PocketShip is an unusually good subject for a yuloh.

During engineless days I did get stranded, once, off Duxbury, Massachusetts, with my future wife aboard. We were sailing out to Saquish for a weekend of camp-cruising with friends. The wind died, a strong ebb tide started carrying us out to sea, and a thick fog rolled in. I set to it with the canoe paddle, crabbing across the current to Clark's Island, about a mile away. I'd have made it, too, but our friends came looking for us in a power boat and slipped us a tow...

When I got round to doing some sailing in Puget Sound, I shipped a 2hp Honda 4-stroke. In those waters, with strong tides, fog, heavy shipping, and intermittent wind, auxiliary power is a necessity.

I remain a snob about engines in boats that sail as well as PocketShip. I fret that too many people use engines as a crutch, instead of honing their boat-handling chops under sail. Anybody can crank up the engine, but there is absolutely nothing more satisfying than a clean landing under sail. Set out a buoy someplace without much traffic, and a spend a few hours approaching the buoy from all directions under sail. When you can bring the boat to a stop at the buoy on all points of sail, you'll have the confidence to use your engine less.
John C. Harris
 
Posts: 182
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2009 12:39 pm

Next

Return to PocketShip Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 23 guests

cron