Weak Cleat

[Bflat]

I put my full weight (190 lbs) on the cockpit deck near the rear cabin wall over the center cleat and the forward 6 inches of it sprang loose with a loud crack.. I managed to pull it back up with a couple of stainless steel screws that I left in and then ran a filet along both sides of the cleat under the deck. Hope this holds. The joint between the rear cabin wall and the cockpit deck held but I have been a little doubtful about this joint from the start, even with a large filet, so I am going to add another strip of 4 inch tape, feather it out and then double lap the glass from the rear cabin wall and the cockpit deck over it. Would hate to have this joint separate after finishing the boat. Just a word of caution to those yet to get to this place in their build.
Herb

I just now had this happen to me while working in the cockpit even though I made that cleat twice as wide as called for thinking I could avoid the problem. Also, I glassed the underside of the seat decks before installing them, but the seat deck flexes enough there that the cleat pulled loose. I'll need to pull it away as best I can and try to inject some epoxy in there and fillet along side too. I'm thinking of screws too. I think I'll put some doubling panels there also. I might wait until the boat gets flipped upside down to make it easier to do a good job.

[craig]

I wish I had seen or remembered this thread when I was building my boat. I had this issue occur to me on both sides. Even cracked, the plywood deck seems to be plenty strong, but it does flex a lot. I will need to inject some epoxy into the crack and use some screws to hold it together. I believe that using screws permanently installed would prevent this from happening.

I am also glad that other people are having this issue. I was worried that my epoxy mixtures wasn't strong enough, but I guess it's common enough that I'm ok for the other joints.

Craig

[jwv630]

Might be nice to get an opinion from John Harris/CLC on this. Fairly major issue. John, are you there?......Thanks

Jimmy V

[DanaDCole]

I worried a bit about that particular joint when I built it. The cleats seem to me to be superfluous--they might be about as strong as a one-year-old kid trying the hold up the bridge deck (I guess the cleats are meant to add solidity to the deck after the joint is taped and glued). When I learned about the fillet and tape on top I felt better about it. I applied the fillet and then added the tape when the fillet was just starting to gel, followed by epoxy coats. So that way I have a good chemical bond from the tape to the fillet and an epoxy-to-wood bond on the rest of the tape. This should be extremely strong and so far I have done a lot of walking around on the deck with no problems. It feels very solid.

John mentions people jumping on board on the very spot and the need for the joint to be strong. Apparently he believes it is strong enough as-is. Still, I agree I would like to here his input on the conversation so far. It would not be that hard to add the tape on the underside of the joint while the boat is flipped. Would not be terribly difficult with the boat upright either as long as you lay down plenty of protection for the floor and use a tray and roller to apply the epoxy. This might be one place where it would be a good idea to apply some epoxy to the wood before adding the tape, then adding the wetting-out coat on top of the tape after it is applied (followed by fill and gloss coats of course).

[craig]

I believe we are talking about at least three different joints in this thread. My understanding of the original post (and the problem in my boat) is the 1" x 3/4" cleat that runs fore/aft between the hull and centerboard on each side of the centerboard that helps support the deck. In my boat, when I stepped hard on the deck right above that point (which happened to be half a food or so from the rear cabin bulkhead), the cleat separated from the plywood deck in a dirty break due to too much flexing of the plywood. The rear cabin bulkhead/deck joint is extremely strong and did not break. The area is more flexible now when I step on it and doesn't seem like it will break any more. I will someday drill some stainless screws through the deck into the cleat to hold them together again, and embed the screw head in epoxy. That should solve the issue.

Dana: I'm not sure what you are referring to with all the tape and fillets and stuff. I taped and filleted both sides of the rear cabin bulkhead/deck joint. The cleat I mentioned above didn't get a fillet or tape. None are indicated in the manual that I remember.

[DanaDCole]

Sorry about that. I was probably reading the post and thinking what I wanted to think. I had thought you meant that the bridge deck was breaking away from the aft cabin wall-duh!. Now I think I finally have it through my thick skull that the flex in the deck plywood is causing the cleats to break away when too much weight is applied. The aft cabin wall to bridge-deck joint is holding together, correct? I suppose this could be seen as a design flaw, but I don't know of any better way to handle it. Perhaps an athwartships beam on each side of the CB trunk would help, but there is not much space under there as it is, so the beam could not be very hefty. I think the main goal of this design is to keep the boat as light as possible and John has done a great job there. We'll just have to be careful in that area--perhaps heavier folks should step closer to the seatback and over to the center area, which is well supported by the CB trunk. (Put those "No Step" placards as on aircraft wings near the weaker areas?)

The fillet and tape I am talking about goes all the way across the bridge deck where it meets the aft cabin wall. I thought this seemed a pretty strong joint as is, and now it looks like that is true. So far I have not had the cleat break away from the deck, but I only weigh about 175 and I haven't tried jumping on it (nor will I). I'm pretty sure anyone I take on board will merely step onto the deck, so hope I don't have a problem. If I ever do I will be able to refer back to this thread as to the best way to fix it.

Again, my apologies for not reading the original post as carefully as I should. I probably added a lot to the confusion.

[Shudoman]

One of the things that seemed to work for me to reduce the flexing in this area was to coat the underside of the seat flats with fiberglass, not just seal it with resin. Although this isn't called for in the manual or on the plans it seemed prudent to me.

Bill

[Bflat]

One of the things that seemed to work for me to reduce the flexing in this area was to coat the underside of the seat flats with fiberglass, not just seal it with resin. Although this isn't called for in the manual or on the plans it seemed prudent to me.

Bill

I did the same (glassed the underside of seat decks before installation) and still one of those cleats pulled away with an audible, "pop" while I was working in the cockpit. However, I think it will be an easy fix when I eventually flip the hull upside down. I'm planning to add some 1/4" or 3/8" thickening panels under that area of the deck to try to stiffen it up. I'll also fillet around the problem cleats and drive a couple flat head stainless screws through the seat deck into the cleats.

[herbt]

Wow, lots of problems with this cleat. I really don't think a 3/4 X 1 piece of wood that just kind of hangs out with no end support adds much if any support to the deck. I wound up leaving the screws in after repairing the cleat and running fillets on both sides. I also taped the inside of the rear cabin wall and the deck joint in addition to the outside taping. So far after several enjoyable sailings, no further problems.
By the way, after watching the CLC video that John made on launching Pocketship and raising the mast, etc. I learned that the easiest way to raise and lower the mast is by doing the whole job from the foredeck, very easy.

Herb

[DanaDCole]

I did some bouncing around (afraid to jump very hard) in that area yesterday and no problems so far. In the video you mention John jumps on the bridge deck pretty hard and it didn't give way--he doesn't look all that heavy, but as tall as he is he probably weighs at least 180. Still, I think it would be prudent to add tape to the underside of the joint while the boat is flipped.