Keel Shoe

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Keel Shoe

Postby herbt on Wed Apr 16, 2014 5:48 pm

In reading some the topics, particularly 'Centerboard of Doom', I am wondering if the keel could use some additional protection from scrapes and scratches when grounding, trailer loading and launching, etc. A strip of 1/4 or 1/2 inch glassed hardwood running the length of the keel would go a long way to help prevent water intrusion into the wood of the CB trunk and the rest of the keel. It would also help prevent soaking while sitting on a trailer for long periods of time.
Maybe John Harris could comment on this if he reads this post.

Herb
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Re: Keel Shoe

Postby craig on Wed Apr 16, 2014 7:15 pm

Tattoo has a stainless steel shoe: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=401&p=1190&hilit=tattoo+shoe#p1190

Either option sounds like a good idea, especially along the sides of the centerboard trunk where the keel is thinnest.
Titania, launched January 2015
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Re: Keel Shoe

Postby herbt on Thu Apr 17, 2014 5:52 pm

Yes I think it will be well worth the effort.

Saw you add in Wooden Boat. Any bites? or has It been sold?

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Re: Keel Shoe

Postby DanaDCole on Mon Apr 21, 2014 8:53 am

Purpleheart would be a good choice I think. I assume it would go over the fiberglass. Would you epoxy over the hardwood? Also, if a gap is left for the centerboard trunk that would allow better draining.

I have seen posts where people added a strip of stainless steel, but I think that would cause its own problems.

I've been toying with the idea of dynel cloth and graphite/epoxy rubstrips (e.g., the kits sold by CLC) in vulnerable areas. Any thoughts?
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Re: Keel Shoe

Postby herbt on Mon Apr 21, 2014 6:03 pm

Any good hardwood would work ok. Ash, white oak, mahogany, etc. I have already gone around my keel with a round over bit so I think the process will be, glass the keel and bottom per manual then glue down the shoe with thickened epoxy and bronze ring nails being very careful not to get runs and drips inside the trunk , then fill in the original round over gap, then round over the shoe, then glass over the shoe and keel one more time. The result should be a much stiffer CB trunk opening as well as a better protected bottom. Wont know for sure till I turn the boat over.
Shoes were used since ancient times as sacrificial protection for the keel.
Don't know what you mean about leaving a gap between the shoe and the cb trunk. I want this to be all one piece.

Herb
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Re: Keel Shoe

Postby Bflat on Mon Apr 21, 2014 6:58 pm

I've been thinking of doing something similar. I'd like to avoid using any nails or screws, however. I'm thinking of simply epoxying on a hardwood keel shoe and not glassing it in, but leaving it exposed. Oak is said to not take to epoxy all that well, so I'll not go with that. I'm a long ways off from doing this so in the mean time I'll consider shoe materials including non-woods. Possibly just laying up a fiberglass and Dynel shoe, epoxying it on and fairing it in with more glass and filler would be a good option.
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Re: Keel Shoe

Postby DanaDCole on Tue Apr 22, 2014 8:37 am

HerbT,

I see what you are saying--you would cut a hole for the centerboard in the keel shoe. My idea was to just mount a shoe from the nose up to the centerboard hole, then add a second shoe aft of the centerboard back to the rudder. To me that would be a lot simpler and less likely to get epoxy inside the trunk. Also, it leaves a gap for drainage. Each end of each shoe should be properly faired. One other thing is that the bits of shoe left on each side of of the centerboard hole would be mighty thin and serve no real purpose.

Bflat,

I like your idea of not glassing over the shoe and not using fasteners--epoxy is stronger than screws or nails once it has set. Goes back to the sacrificial protection HerbT mentions. Conceivably, if the shoe gets too damaged or worn down, it could be replaced. You could not remove the old shoe since it is epoxied to the keel, but you could plane it down to sound wood, then epoxy a new shoe to that.

This all sounds great in theory, but there is the practical problem of getting at it for replacement. E.g., if you are supporting it with a gantry and slings, the slings go right around the keel shoe, so that would not work. Perhaps you would get it off the boat using a gantry, then support the boat with jacks and remove the slings? Sounds like a pretty major operation I hope I never have to worry about! That's why I like the idea of purpleheart--I'd probably be dead before that wore down much at all. :) Also, I don't like the idea of working under a boat that heavy, and how would you hold the new shoe to the old shoe while the epoxy sets? Fasteners would be the only way unless you roll the boat over. (Or maybe duct tape would hold it well enough while the epoxy sets.)

It's starting to look to me, though, like Dynel cloth and graphited epoxy is the best way to go. This would have little or no effect on the the sailing dynamics, while even a slight increase in the height of the keel might.

Maybe the best thing is to just sit in the boat on dry land and pretend to sail it! Or cover it with Saran Wrap. I think my point is obvious--any boat that is used is going to get dinged or worse, that's just the way it goes. But that doesn't mean not to protect the hull as best as we can--it is going to be very difficult to get at the bottom parts for repairs. BTW, I am also looking into epoxy bottom paint. (Will not be leaving the boat in the water between sails.)
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Re: Keel Shoe

Postby Bflat on Tue Apr 22, 2014 9:26 am

Let's not forget that the Pocketship is a small boat. Turning it on it's side or all the way upside down every 10 years or so isn't a huge feat. Similarly, much larger boats commonly get set up on blocks and stands. Check out "tips from a shipwright" on Youtube. There's video in that series that shows how to do it.
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Re: Keel Shoe

Postby truenorth on Tue Apr 22, 2014 10:39 am

On filling in the roundover, an easy way to do that is to run the piece through a router table with the opposite bit than the roundover. Meaning, if your roundover was 3/8", get a 3/8" radius, or 3/4" diameter, round (not roundover). You can either cut it edge on against a fence, or cut a dado through the middle of the piece, then cut the piece in half with a table saw (take note of the kerf, tho). You'll be left with a matching profile to glue onto the keel. It's similar in principle to the bead and cove technique, just with different bits.

Insert something into the centerboard trunk like some of that leftover foam insulation, epoxy the round into place, and you've now squared it off. Fill and fair as necessary and round over the cap. You'll save epoxy, time, and sanding by doing it one step. I'm thinking it'll add maybe 3/4" to the height. Worth it? Not sure, but I'm curious, so keep the board posted.
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Re: Keel Shoe

Postby DanaDCole on Tue Apr 22, 2014 3:08 pm

Bflat, good point. The boat seems huge to me, the owner of a Skerry, but in fact it is pretty small. Comparatively heavy, but with a few friends to help I'm sure we can get it off the trailer and onto the grass. I guess it's JonLee's posts and replies that had me worried--all that fuss about using the tide to lay it over and forklifts and gantries, etc. But now that I think about it, if there is a way to get it from the garage onto a trailer after building it, that same method should suffice to get it off the trailer when necessary.

TrueNorth, you've got some good ideas, but after reading Bflat's latest post I think the Dynel/graphite idea and some epoxy bottom paint will be sufficient now that I am more comfortable about getting at the bottom of the hull.
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