Jib vs. No Jib: the best way to reef?

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Jib vs. No Jib: the best way to reef?

Postby craig on Mon May 11, 2015 8:47 am

I have very little experience in sailing a sloop-rigged sailboat, outside of my own Pocketship. Hopefully some of you experienced hands will weigh in with your opinions. Up to now I've been leaving the jib unfurled and reefing the main as the wind gets up. I've been reefing very conservatively with a preference for less sail area because the boat is usually very lightly loaded, and the heel angle gets to be pretty steep. The problem is that the center of effort keeps moving forward. Is it better to first take in the jib as a first reef, and only then reef the mainsail? I tried this yesterday and it seemed to work well. There was a noticeable amount of weather helm with this setup, which makes sense.

I should do experiments to see how close I can get to the wind Jib vs No-Jib. With the jib, I'm able to do 52 degrees with decent speed close-hauled (by measuring my GPS tracks afterwards).
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Re: Jib vs. No Jib: the best way to reef?

Postby John C. Harris on Mon May 11, 2015 9:25 am

Rolling up the jib is an excellent "first reef" as long as you don't have a long way to go to windward. Like all sloops of all shapes and stripes, PocketShip is doggy going upwind under main alone. I prefer to reef and keep the jib up.

The CE does move forward when you reef the main, which is nice because it moderates weather helm when you're pressed hard. But in in-between conditions all of that moment created by that sporting bowsprit can make her steer wild and you have to ease the jib sheet, something you wouldn't have to do in a modern white plastic sloop with a jib tacked to the stem head. (A hundred years ago, this boat would have had two smaller jibs instead of one larger jib. Or in the terminology of the time, a jib and a staysail. You'd reef the main and take in the jib, keeping the CE about in the same place.)

It's on my list to try some experiments with my boat with different sail shapes and combinations. Our sailmaker has agreed to participate. Had hoped to get that done over the winter, but it'll be next Fall, it looks like.
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Re: Jib vs. No Jib: the best way to reef?

Postby craig on Mon May 11, 2015 10:45 am

Thanks for the reply, John. It may be imaginary, but I like to pretend there is a "kick" when I unfurl the jib after getting underway. It definitely does add to pointing ability and speed. I'll only "first reef" the jib when not sailing hard upwind.

Your Pocketship sailing guide video is very helpful, especially with regard to proper jib sheeting technique. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qXQ4HJihr4

I'm sure we all look forward to hearing about different sail configurations. To satisfy intellectual curiosity, I have sewn and rigged a mizzen leg-o-mutton sail and hope to get that out on the water sometime later this summer. Full report to follow!
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Re: Jib vs. No Jib: the best way to reef?

Postby JonLee on Mon May 11, 2015 1:20 pm

I sense a cutter rig in the offing.
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Re: Jib vs. No Jib: the best way to reef?

Postby DanaDCole on Tue May 12, 2015 12:32 pm

I too have almost no experience with a sloop, but I want to clear up what I guess now was a misconception. I was under the impression that it is possible to partially furl the jib as a way of "reefing" it along with the main. Is this not true?
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Re: Jib vs. No Jib: the best way to reef?

Postby Bflat on Tue May 12, 2015 2:34 pm

DanaDCole wrote: I was under the impression that it is possible to partially furl the jib as a way of "reefing" it along with the main. Is this not true?


Partially furling the jib will shorten sail, but the center of effort of that sail will move forward along with that, and so it may not help with keeping the boats CE in place when reefing. It's kind of a "catch 22." It also messes up the jib sheet lead angle. It would be worth a try, though, I think.

As an aside, John mentioned experimenting with sail shape (and configuration). I'm wondering if that may mean creating a main sail with a higher clew. This would allow for yet more mast rake while allowing the boom to clear the boom gallows (and heads). More rake brings the CE aft. The clew of the jib may also need to be raised to maintain the same sheeting lead angle with increased mast rake. Just wondering.
Last edited by Bflat on Thu May 14, 2015 1:40 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Jib vs. No Jib: the best way to reef?

Postby craig on Tue May 12, 2015 3:31 pm

Bflat: I wonder if you could simulate that by using the first reef point clew but unreefed tack. That might make the mast rake a bit too extreme though.
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Re: Jib vs. No Jib: the best way to reef?

Postby Bflat on Tue May 12, 2015 4:52 pm

craig wrote:Bflat: I wonder if you could simulate that by using the first reef point clew but unreefed tack. That might make the mast rake a bit too extreme though.


I'm sure that would be way way too much rake. I'm talking about inches, not feet. Extreme rake brings its own problems. Too much and the boom doesn't want to leave the centerline (gravity isn't just a good idea; it's the law :) It sure looks cool, though (see "The Pride of Baltimore")
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Re: Jib vs. No Jib: the best way to reef?

Postby John C. Harris on Wed May 13, 2015 9:08 am

>>>>I was under the impression that it is possible to partially furl the jib as a way of "reefing" it along with the main. Is this not true?

Reefing the jib by furling it is a near-universal practice among larger cruisers. No, there's not an issue with the CE moving forward in the process, because you've made the jib smaller, reducing its moment.

However, PocketShip's furling gear differs from that found on bigger boats. In small boats like PocketShip you're just rolling the jib up around the luff wire. Pull hard enough on the sheet---as you might in strong winds---and a jib rolled up around a luff wire will unroll itself, at least partially, simply because the wire can twist.

The big boats have a sturdy aluminum extrusion encasing the forestay, in which the jib is tracked, as if in a skinny mast. The extrusion resists twist and allows actual reefing of the jib under high loads. Even if such a furler was available for a 40-square-foot jib (they are not), it would be much too heavy for little PocketShip. You don't see those kinds of jib furlers until you're in a boat two or three times PocketShip's displacement.
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