New builder here... some questions before I actually start

[kevinbright]

Hi everyone... I've been a fan of Pocketship for a year or two now. I was near Annapolis, MD, last March and stopped by CLC for a quick tour and to check out Pocketship I. I also grabbed a building manual. The weather was hell... freezing cold and a few inches of snow. I was able to get aboard Pocketship I though and check it out. I left there determined to give the kit a go, but between time constraints and cost issues, it never got off the ground. I also wasn't keen no tying up my garage for a few years during the build. I have a two car garage, but one bay is occupied with my "weekend" car (1993 Mazda Rx-7, for the car guys here).

Since then, I've kept my eye on this forum and followed a few building logs. My now-five-year-old son got wind of the fact that I was thinking about building a boat and he's 110% on board, so I guess there's no turning back now. I've decided to garage my car at a friend's house, which resolves the space issue. As far as the cost goes, I'm hoping to build from the plans rather than the kit. This may not be less expensive overall, but at least I can diffuse the cost over the time of the build. I have a lumber yard near me that sells marine grade plywood. It's called "Home Depot." Just kidding. It's a local place. I need to call tomorrow to get prices and more information on what brand of wood they carry.

Anyway, since I'll be building from plans, and buying supplies as I go, my plan is start off by building the keel-assembly and centerboard. In order to do so, I think I'll need the following items:

1. Set of plans ($220, since I already have the manual);
2. 4x8 9mm (3/8") marine grade plywood (x3) ($???);
3. 8' length of 2x6 spruce, fir or pine ($???);
4. Epoxy ($198 for Economy Kit No. 1 from CLC; includes: 1 gallon resin, 0.5 gallon non-blushing slow hardener, 0.5 gallon wood flour, 1 quart cell-o-fill thickener, metered dispensing pumps);
5. Fiberglass fabric ($???, no idea how much I need).

Is there anything I'm missing? Also, can anyone comment on how much fiberglass fabric I'll need to finish the keel assembly and centerboard? And, can anyone in the NE comment on the price that would be reasonable for the wood?

I have a pretty well stocked workbench (14" band saw, 12" table saw, good assortment of power and hand tools, etc.). I'm sure I'll need to pick up a tool or two along the way, but I think I pretty good for now. I also want to upgrade the lighting in my garage with some overhead florescent lights and grabs some sort of heater to keep it above 60 degrees during the colder months. The good thing about starting with the keel in the winter is I can bring the parts inside while they dry if the garage is too cold.

Anyway, and other general advice would be appreciated. As a bonus, I've added some pictures of Pocketship I I took when I was in Annapolis last year.

Kevin

[kevinbright]

Ok... I called the local lumber yard and I got the following prices:

4x8x3/8 - Douglas Fir Plywood: $112/sheet
4x8x3/8 - Okoume Plywood: $122/sheet
4x8x3/8 - Sapele Plywood: $210/sheet

The guy I spoke to said all their plywood meets the BS 1088 standard and has the Loyds of London designation, for whatever that's worth.

Can anyone comment on those prices? The Sapele seems pretty high.

Thanks,

Kevin

[riverron]

Hey Kevin,
Welcome! I am a new builder like your self, but I am planning on buying the kit here in about 2 months.

Here is a spreadsheet that I put together using CLC's prices. Definite more cost affected to buy in the kit, but I understand the need to purchase as needed.

Plywood Pocket ship Total
3mm 62.7 Okoume
4 mm 67.75 Okoume 1 67.75
6mm 1/4 89.95 Okoume 11 989.45
9 mm 3/8 99.95 Okoume 5 499.75
18 mm 3/4 312 Sapele Transom 1 312
1868.95

The Okoume looks a little higher, but if you can purchase locally you will need to do the math to purchasing online / shipping cost .
Also, I think the Transom is built from 18 mm Sapale, which is expensive. Nice wood costs!!!

Look on the CLC website on the Pocketship page. Under the pricing options is a bill of materials. That may help in ordering things a la carte.

Hope this helps and look forward to parallel building!

thanks
Ron

[DanaDCole]

A few thoughts:

You're going to need at least 10 gallons of resin and 5 gallons of hardener, so you save a little by buying them in those larger amounts. Don't worry about shelf life--according to CLC they have used MAS epoxy that was over 10 years old with no problems. They believe MAS publishes a shorter shelf life to sell more epoxy. Just be sure to store it at 55 degrees F or higher. Otherwise it may crystallize--you'll start to see a "milky" area near the bottom and growing in size. If it does get too cold and crystallizes, no worries, it can be brought back to life in a hot water bath.

I bought the kit because I figured I would end up spending more on additional plywood after all the mistakes I would make trying to make those long, precise cuts without a CNC router. Just saying I think you have to be a damn fine woodworker to build from plans. There are plenty of them out there and they have my greatest respect--just wanted to make sure you are confident of your abilities.

I'll leave it to others to estimate how much fiberglass cloth you'll need for the keel/trunk assembly, but again the 50-yard roll will probably save you money in the long run and it is easy to store.

You might take a look at this shop light: http://www.rockler.com/4-led-shop-light it'll save you quite a bit on electricity. And you'll need a heater for your garage while the epoxy is curing. I believe quartz heaters are the most efficient: http://www.globalindustrial.com/p/hvac/heaters/portable-electric/heater-deluxe-fan-forced-quartz-czqtv6-white-750-1500w-5120-btu?utm_source=msn&utm_medium=shp&utm_term=B1191216&utm_campaign=Portable-Electric&infoParam.campaignId=WR

That's all I can think of for now. Hope this helps.

[Shudoman]

Just a note... I believe the prototype PocketShip was built entirely of sapele, with the kit it's only the transom. I wouldn't bother with the expense or problems building the entire boat out of sapele it's more expensive and harder to bend.

Bill

[kevinbright]

Thanks for all the replies... you guys have given me some good input. I've sourced some marine grade plywood locally, and the only place that even knew what the BS 1088 standard was, or was familiar with the Llyods of London designation, was a local place that was substantially more than CLC (27% more). So the bottom line is, even if I build from plans, I'll probably be travelling to CLC to buy the wood (about 2 hours each way ).

I'd love to go the kit route, but it's just too much of an initial outlay at the moment. I thought that since I would be traveling to CLC anyway for the wood, perhaps I could get them to CLC the plywood (for an additional cost) while I'm there. They already have the CNC files for the router, so it shouldn't be too much of a chore. I could, for example, buy the pieces needed for the keel assembly for now, and then go back for the hull pieces when that done, and then the deck stuff, etc.

Anyway, I sent an email to CLC to see if that's an option. If so, I could grab the plans and a smaller epoxy kit while I'm there.

Kevin

[craig]

I built my boat on a shoestring budget (student!), and that requires some compromises and careful research to get less expensive but equally suitable material. The number one way to cut costs is to buy in bulk, unfortunately. You'll easily spend twice as much if you get it piecemeal. You will need 10 gallons of epoxy, so I recommend you bite the bullet and just get it. Same with the plywood. Much more expensive to get piece by piece. I bought my epoxy from US Composites, as well as a 50 yard roll of fiberglass. 5 gallons of silica was way too much, I only used a fraction of that. 5 pounds wood floor was just right, but I supplemented with my sander dust from sanding spars. Again, making one order gives you a discount in shipping and for bulk purchases.

Those plywood prices you cited were too high. Decide whether you want lighter okoume; or heavier but stronger and cheaper meranti. You can have it shipped to your house for 150 a pallet I think, I used Noah's marine for the meranti (not sold by clc) and again got a discount on the price. You can also use smart layout to eliminate some sheets. I ended up
Scarfing some parts together out of scrap and didn't purchase like two 9mm sheets and 2 6mm sheets, so think about layout and order accordingly. The solid wood pieces can be just whatever, cheap pine from Home Depot. The cabin sole can be plywood rather than solid timber to save money. Etc. Remember that the big initial outlay for the plywood and epoxy will satisfy you for a while, and the expensive hardware and sails aren't needed until much later.

Craig

[kevinbright]

Thanks for the reply... You were right about meranti. It's about half of the cost of okoume. I checked Noah's and it looks like I can get all of the marine grade plywood I need (minus the 18mm Sapele for the transom) for $955, plus shipping. I'm waiting on a response to my email regarding the shipping cost, but that's much cheaper than getting okoume from CLC.

Now I need to start shopping around for epoxy...

Kevin

[craig]

Remember, the sapele is for looks, not structural integrity. It's your choice whether to use a light wood (pine, okoume), a medium color (meranti), or a dark wood (sapele), or anything else, for the transom.

[kevinbright]

Good point... I think I'll buy all of the plywood (except the 18mm piece) to get started. That will be about $1,150 shipped from Noah's (no tax! ), plus the plans. That way I can still get the best deal on the wood, and I can get started tracing and cutting the pieces from the plans. That should keep me busy while I save up for the epoxy package from CLC. I've shopped around and, at least as to MAS epoxy, the CLC price for the Pocketship kit is by far the cheapest I can find.

Kevin